#E62 How to Reinvent Yourself for the Future of Work, With Dr. Selina Neri
Read the HYPERSCALE transcript
Briar- 00:01: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Hyperscale. I'm here in our Dubai studio and today I'm going to be picking apart the future and really trying to understand what is our future going to entail. This talks about artificial intelligence. Technology is now evolving super exponentially and todayI've got Dr. Selina Neri with me on the show and she is the co-founder, CEO and Dean of the Institute of Future Readiness here in the UAE. Welcome to the show, Dr. Selina.
Dr. Selina - 00:32: Thank you, thank you. Delighted to be here. I've been looking forward to it.
Briar - 00:37: Likewise. Likewise. Absolutely. And you really are in the intersection of you live in Dubai, a place of innovation. It's rapidly evolving. We obviously have so many people come here from all around the world in the technology space. What are you seeing on the ground when it comes to artificial intelligence and how the world is rapidly evolving?
Dr. Selina - 01:06: Well, first of all, I see a nation which we call our home that has the ambition to play a key role in AI in the future and has the strategic leadership to make it happen. So we experience here with so many initiatives and so many companies and policies from the government, a focus on AI and a focus for the long run on AI. Not just the hype and an interest in understanding what is it exactly within AI that we need to foster an economy that is going to be sustainable, to help people develop skills, to create the ecosystems at country level but also at business level that are needed because nobody does it alone. And to position the United Arab Emirates as a leader in this space.
Dr. Selina - 01:56: You know, this is the big revolution of this century and it is mapping out a very different way of living and working and with it lots of opportunities and lots of anxiety as well. So this is on the ground. There's a lot of also hype globally around technology. Having worked myself for over two decades in tech, I might say this is also a little bit the makeup of the industry, this hype. But we need to do a good job in getting from the hype to the reality on the ground and really understanding. Okay, first of all, AI has a cost. So what is it that I really need? What is it that AI can do to my business or to the way I educate or to the way I learn to the way I live and then making certain choices.
Dr. Selina - 02:43: And the UAE is a place where we are guided in doing that. We are supported.
Briar - 02:49: And how did you even get into this space? Like tell us about your career evolution.
Dr. Selina - 02:55: So I am, I like to call myself a woman of many lives and I am a self diagnosed corporate academic. I spent a very long time, over 30 years industry before I even entered education. Not as a student, but as a provider of education. I come from a very humble background, you know, a small town in northern Italy, a place I hated from the beginning to the end. I wanted to get away. I wanted to find, to look at the world in a different way. And I would say that opportunities, but most importantly, challenges, have made me the woman I am today and will continue, I think, to make me in the future. So I didn't follow any particular pre described or predefined career path. I went into the technology industry by chance.
Dr. Selina - 03:51: At the time I was finishing my MBA in the United States, I had no idea about really what technology could do, but I had several offers to enter technology. And because I think I have a curious mind, and that is something I think we have in common, an inquisitive and curious mind. I said, what the hell, let's go for it. So technology kept me busy for 26 years. I built myself abroad. I remained abroad mainly in corporate sales type of functions. And eventually I got to a point where I wanted to see something different. I wanted to see technology applied to industries as opposed to the technology industry itself, myself. And this got me to transition four times across industries. I went from tech to luxury.
Dr. Selina - 04:43: I went from luxury to hospitality, and then I went from hospitality to academia, and I went from executive management to board services. So what is this telling us? The spice of my life is variety, and it is learning and it is reinventing myself and pivoting. Of course, I paid a huge price for all of these choices because where there is a light, there is a shade. I left people behind, people I cared about. I had to choose a certain path that other people were not necessarily in agreement with. I had to trust myself that maybe there was a way for me to make it. When everybody was saying, forget it's not going to be for you. And I eventually carved a life that is mine. I'm not living anymore the life my parents wanted for me. You know, those days are over.
Dr. Selina - 05:38: And when they became over, it was very liberating. Briar. It was a moment in my life where I started to feel now I really own my future.
Briar - 05:48: What did your parents want you to be?
Dr. Selina - 05:50: Oh, well, there was a combination of a doctor of medicine, a ballet dancer and a good wife.
Briar - 06:00: I'm sure when you were going through this phase in the technology space, like, were there a lot fewer women than what you see now? Perhaps, like, was. What was the. You Know what was the market like back then?
Dr. Selina - 06:17: It was an industry, honestly, where maybe there were 10 women globally. Let's also remember I started from zero. So I built myself up from scratch and outside of my home country, which I now call the country where I was born, which is Italy, with a name that is anglo Saxon and with an accent that is anglo Saxon. So the criteria for acceptance were very limited. But I never felt it was a handicap or it was a stigma or something that would push me down. I turned who I am into an advantage. I'm a very humble learner. So I learned to surround myself with people from whom I could learn.
Dr. Selina - 07:08: And I also learned to shut down or shut up the voices of those around me and above me who didn't believe in me, who told me, you will never go anywhere because you are not an engineer. I am an economist. I studied business, not engineering. And you are a woman. So at the time, people could talk to you like that. A boss could tell you are a female. So what are you doing in this industry? Or you will never have a career. Today, you know, we wouldn't accept this type of talk. It's also, you know, legally unacceptable. But at the time, you know, it was the 1990s and then, therefore, I grew up professionally through the dot com boom at the time when Internet was the big thing of the future. And I also saw the crash of the dot com boom.
Dr. Selina - 07:57: I was working for WorldCom in the United States when they went bust. When you have that experience and that name on your cv, you really understand from within how certain decisions and behaviors of leaders can make or break a company and all the people whose lives depend on that. So that is, in essence, my path so far.
Briar - 08:26: Yes, so far, exactly. And it's so interesting, like, I often think I was thinking last week about the time where we didn't have mobile phones, we didn't have the Internet. Like, I remember these days, and they weren't that long ago. And here we're living in a time where things are just developing so exponentially. Like, the rate of change is just never seen before. When we speak about future readiness. What do you mean by this?
Dr. Selina - 08:55: It's a good question, and thank you for it, because it's a new field and it's a crowded space already. It means lots of different things to different people. But we are coming in as the institute with research that supports a definition that looks at the moment as future readiness is the defining characteristic is the DNA of people built to Thrive, not born to thrive in the future of our work and in the type of complexities and opportunities that we live in.
Dr. Selina - 09:31: So it is the DNA of people of all ages, first of all, so it's cross generational and people who have a certain mindset which is globally minded, open to learning, open to the future, open to create our own future, people who remain relevant and are able to feed and live through lifelong learning, people who can pivot their careers, their stage in life, and who remain very curious about what is around us. It is this defining characteristic that builds future readiness. It is a lifelong adventure. I always say, Briar, as long as there is life, there is learning. And we map these competencies, these drivers, these experiences and these preferences to the priority areas of the future, which in the UAE are human capital development, the world of technology, the world of sustainability and green skills, and entrepreneurship.
Dr. Selina - 10:40: Not only as entrepreneurs, creators of jobs and creators of businesses, but in the old etymology, the old origin of the word entrepreneurship in old French entrepreneur, which means do something. And this do something we will see maybe later in the conversation is a key aspect of future readiness.
Briar - 11:03: So, there's a lot of mindset shifts that one needs. And I like the fact that you talk about this very proactive approach. Like you talk about people being built, not made, and would you say so thinking about society these days, I often think that there is a lot of fear and there's a lot of people that are perhaps on social media and spending a lot of time on social media, spending a lot of time on Netflix, you know, having that kind of cheap dopamine surrounding them and fearful about the future. Do you think that society has, are they future ready or are we seeing a society that's maybe not future ready? And if so, how do we get the societal shift where people are excited for the future, they're going out there, they're ready to build themselves.
Dr. Selina - 12:00: It's a very important topic and a very important question because overall, when we look at what research is telling us, there is anxiety and fear about the future. Despite the amazing breakthroughs in tech, in health care, in longevity, the 100 year life that we are all set to live. So we need to understand where this fear is coming from and this is where also the location. So where someone is living plays a big role. We did a study at the institute just before Christmas in the UAE around future readiness and how people, residents and expatriates and citizens feel about the future. And 71% of the UAE residents are very excited. But 68% worry about their skill set not remaining ready for the future. So I think there are a couple of things that I would like to mention.
Dr. Selina - 13:02: First of all, anxiety is a human feeling, but when it turns into a negative energy or when it blocks us from trying out, experimenting, because this is the world of work, it's all about experimentation and pivoting and trying out new things. When I'm paralyzed and my fear is so strong that prohibits me to take those leaps of faith, then we have a real problem at societal level. We have an education system globally that is traditional in the sense that when you are an accredited institution and you have degree programs, bachelor degrees, etc. It's very difficult to be flexible with your curriculum. And flexibility is needed for future skills and future learning. We need to be able to navigate the turns and the twists and what is unexpected, expected.
And the traditional education system is rooted in a stable curricula that develops certain skills and therefore the need for education to complement the curriculum with players, companies, organizations, government that are very agile that can bring and feed these specific aspects that are needed for now, for the next three years as well as for the next 30 years. So this ecosystem way of working is very important. And then a societal level, there's a lot of information briar out there and some of that information available on social media, available in the printed press, etc. Isn't necessarily painting the right picture. And therefore we are all left looking at this and saying, okay, where is my place in this? And how do I remain ready for the future? Because I'm never done. Oh well, here I am, I'm done and dusty, that doesn't happen.
Dr. Selina - 14:54: And so my purpose and the purpose of my team with me is to help making generations future ready. So helping them to understand what that journey looks like and what is the, what we call the human agency? What is it that I as an individual need to do to build that future and find my place in it and then find a new place? Because it's not only about one place in the future, is many places.
Briar - 15:22: So where would be the first place someone would start in developing their skill set?
Dr. Selina - 15:28: The first place to start is to take a very long look at ourselves and understand a few things. First of all, skills are important. So what is it that I'm good at? What is my competence not necessarily linked to my current job, but what are the things that I'm good at? This is important. These are skills and behaviors, but next to it, and this is the big missing gap in my opinion, in the way we look at the future of work because it's all about skills.
Dr. Selina - 15:59: We go beyond skills because to create people whose lives are happy and fulfilled in the future, I need to also look at what are my preferences, how do I like to learn to live and to work, what are my drivers, meaning what motivates me, which means what moves me, what gets me out of bed in the morning, what keeps me going when all the odds are against me, what are my values? What do I care about, what type of people I want to work with, in what type of country I want to live in. All of these are as important as skills. Because if I only look at the skills I have and the skills I need for it. TBC job. Yes, I might be marketable for the job, but am I actually living a happy life?
Dr. Selina - 16:47: I always give the example, creating generations of coders, right? Many countries are very interested in building the coding skills, which anyway we know AI will be able to do in a few years, will be able to do coding. But we need to go one step further. How many of these people actually would like a profession that is built on coding? Because it is a certain choice of day to day life and skills of the future. And how is coding fitting in the bigger picture of me and my future? Because it is a skill in my toolkit. It isn't in itself a profession. I need other things around it. So we need to start by looking at the competencies we have today. And I might be a 15 year old. And my competences are very much linked to my school, my education, what my sports or what I do in the family. You know, we all start somewhere. But then I need to have an understanding and develop an understanding of what is this famous future of work, what is going to happen in this future and is it the future at all that is going to happen to me as opposed to I make it happen. Because these are two very different ways of looking at it. And what are the skills that we know from research will be needed anyway in the future versus the special, we call them the foundational skills versus the very specialized ones. If I want to have a job in the sustainability area, or a job in Finance 5.0, or a job in technology, or a job in the future of luxury.
Dr. Selina - 18:24: These are specialized skills. But then I need to know how do I go from where I am today to where I eventually want to be, knowing that in that journey I might change my mind, I might figure out new things might happen in my life that make me switch, make me fall in love with people, places, type of businesses, and fall out of love with others. Because we are human beings and we are in constant flux. And I need to get to know myself very well. You know, I. In, in the leadership domain, Briar, we have allowed leaders to go from zero to hero over the past 100 years. And when they get to senior positions, they have no idea of who they are as people.
Dr. Selina- 19:13: They have no self awareness, they have no real deep down in the bone understanding of what moves, why are they there, what type of responsibility they feel for the people they lead. So we can't do the same with the future of work. We need to help people understand what they love, understand that this will change, can change, and understand how they like to make an impact in this world. Because that's the only way I can live a happy and fulfilled life and I can make professional and personal choices that will support this vision.
Briar - 19:49: It's, it's very interesting what you talk about. And when you were suggesting these things, I was thinking of almost like hacking oneself a little bit too. And when you spoke about, you know, what motivates you know, your values, like having those kind of, that kind of intrinsic understanding obviously helps push you further. Right. Because we can't just like always be running around on the hamster wheel. Like there has to be that kind of, you know, that, that deep understanding of oneself, you know, in order to motivate and keep pushing and stuff like this. Because people aren't always going to motivate you around you. Like that would just be silly to even think that, like, we have to be our own driver of our life.
Dr. Selina - 20:32: Absolutely, absolutely. And we also need to accept the fact that knowing ourselves is, you know, in ancient philosophy they used to say the journey of life is about get to know yourself. So when we look at the younger generations, I mean, I had no clue about who I was when I was 15, but also when I was in my early 40s, I had a very little clue. I'm 57 now, and only a few years ago I began to understand myself a little bit better.
Briar - 21:04: What do you think prompted that shift? Was there some kind of profound moment or is.
Dr. Selina - 21:10: Several things. First of all, I started to chop out of my life relationships and people who were toxic. I had several pivotal moments in my health that made me think deeply about the meaning of life. Yeah, I met finally the right people at the right time in terms of deep human connections, men and women, you know, the whole portfolio and spectrum of beauty of humanity. And also I started to become very allergic to jobs. I had bosses I was working for who didn't really serve me beyond some financial stability. And that prompted the realization that, for instance, the game of my life is about learning, and the spice of my life is variety. I hate to be micromanaged. I need to be. I need my creativity to be let free, and I need to make mistakes. And therefore, pivoting and experimenting is what I went towards after 30 years in corporate life where experimenting, especially at the time, was not very well.
Dr. Selina - 22:26: And therefore, when I look at young people today or people of my age needed to build themselves for the future and remain relevant and therefore transitioning, I always wonder if I had known at that age certain things about myself, and if I had the guidance that I needed, I would have made maybe less wrong choices. I would have wasted less years of my life trying to live a life that really wasn't mine or wasn't for me was gold on the outside, but it was not on the inside. And therefore the realization that the purpose of my life is making people future ready and walking, my talk is very important to me. And therefore understanding the future. Readiness is not a badge. It's not a status, it's not a statistic state. It's an adventure.
Dr. Selina - 23:21: And it's an adventure that will be with us in our 90s and 1/ hundreds. So for the long run.
Briar - 23:28: So how do we prepare the younger generation for a future? And we don't know what's going to be in the future. So many of the jobs that they might be choosing for themselves may not even exist in the future, or there might be things in the future, maybe like, I don't know, travel agent for the metaverse or something so random that we can't even. We can't even picture it right now. So what do we say to these children, these younger generations?
Dr. Selina - 24:00: Well, first of all, we help them understand themselves better. That's the first thing. Because the sooner we understand how we are naturally energized to make an impact at school, at work, in our family life, the easier the journey of future readiness will be. Then we need to bring them very close to the ecosystem around them, beyond the school or beyond education. They need to be close to industry from a very young age so that they are exposed to different types of businesses, different ways of creating value. We need to bring them into the public sector so that they understand the work that governments are doing or not doing to facilitate the journey. And we need to Help them get rid of this anxiety. I'm talking particularly 18 to 25, the Gen Z generation.
Dr. Selina - 24:57: Help them overcome this anxiety about the future, which is the result of the fact that they were in their prime years of studying during COVID They are digitally native, which is, which means their social skills are underdeveloped. They need to be balanced. They have anxiety about the future because they see a world around them that is on fire in all kinds of senses of being on fire. And we need to guide them and we also need to learn from them. And this is where reverse mentoring for instance, comes in. Because the idea that learning is the prerogative of a certain age older than me is an old idea. I mean I am being mentored by a Gen Z based in California.
Dr. Selina - 25:44: I've done this for over a year now and it is one of the most amazing experiences because how can I learn about younger generation since I am no longer in that age group? I no longer have those challenges by listening to someone who is in that generation and who is teaching me a lot about what they care about, how they think about the world, what the anxieties are, how do they like to live and work. Why for instance, they will never be willing to sacrifice everything for climbing the corporate ladder. They couldn't care less about this. This was my generation very much. And financial rewards have a place in the life of Gen Z. But they need more. They want more. And I would say thank goodness they want more because I discovered this late in life.
Dr. Selina - 26:45: So we help them by starting this work and we help them by making them feel that there is space for experimentation, There is space for creativity. Because the big ideas that the world has seen ever since inception come from people who have tried the things out, whether it was, you know, electricity or the telephone line or you know, beautiful Chanel dress, it all comes from creativity. But if I bring this youth in a system of work that is static, that is rigid, where failure is not a good thing where I will, you know, I will be tarnished forever if I make a mistake. I will never have the ability to experiment, to see the, you know, the gems, to find the hidden gems.
Dr. Selina - 27:34: And therefore I need to prepare a workplace where they can thrive, not just survive and I have to learn from them. That's the whole game of the multi generational workforce.
Briar - 27:47: And so you speak about the fact that yeah, Gen Z, like they don't care less about this like hustle and sacrificing everything at all costs to come up the corporate ladder. What are some other Things that corporations or business owners, what should we specifically know about Gen Z and how could we set ourselves, our company and set up an environment for their success?
Dr. Selina - 28:14: First of all, they care a lot, much more than I cared when I was a Gen Z about the future of humanity and the future of the planet. And they care about values. They care about working with people who have integrity, who walk their talk, who share the same values in terms of difference between right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate. That's very important to the. The second bit is that because it is a generation that is not willing to sacrifice everything for a career and has a very different way of looking at a career, they want the ability to do something, they want to be entrepreneurs, they want to have the side hustle, they want to have the side gig.
Dr. Selina - 28:59: And this is, think about it, in many regulatory environment, many countries, contractually, when you are in full time employment, you can't have a side gig. It is, you need to dedicate all of your time to an employer. And this is changing now and in the uae definitely there is a push to support people in this domain and this is very welcome. But why do they need the side gig? Because there is energy for creativity. They want to be their own boss at 17, 18, 19 years old and try out whether that is an avenue for them while they also try out corporate life or a life where you are not your own boss and you don't have your own capital or the capital of people who fund you with you. And this creates for many companies a problem.
Dr. Selina - 29:48: But for those who really want to learn to work well with Gen Z and really use this voice from the market in day to day business, it creates actually the opportunity to increase their engagement, to help them settle down this anxiety, this mental illness that is around us and to retain them for the future because there's an exchange I need to see in my multi generational workforce to be able to really carve out a space. Space where baby boomers and Gen X and millennials and Gen Z and even the Gen Alphas who could come in the summer for an internship at their 11 or 12 years old where they all have a place and they all feed off one another.
Dr. Selina - 30:40: And therefore as a business I also need to rethink my talent development, my talent attraction, performance, what performance looks like, how I compensate, how I reward performance. Because just going by degree, level of seniority, number of languages I speak, etc. Is not going to cut it. The way I look at life and work might be very different from the way A Gen Z in my team does. So if my reward system is based on my way, because we are the top leaders or we are the middle managers or the high potential, I will never be able to retain Gen Z. Retention is a big problem for businesses, particularly of Gen Z. And it stems from this structure that is very solid, that is not flexible enough.
Dr. Selina - 31:33: And also the assumption that because everybody belongs to one generation by birth, that doesn't mean that we don't share many aspects of how we look at life and work. There are many elements in the multi generational workforce. People, everybody wants variety, nobody wants to be stuck in a job. Everybody has some level of anxiety about the future. Everybody likes to be able to find the creative side in them and then maybe do nothing with it or do something with it. And this is regardless of age. So we focus way too much on the differences and way too little of what is common. And what is common is this famous term that was invented a few years ago. It was a researcher from the US with the perennial generation. So the people of all ages, they share the characteristics that are now future readiness.
Dr. Selina - 32:31: So people who have a certain mindset, a certain curiosity, who want to test things out, who are conscious citizens of society, who care about certain values, who care about their, you know, their peers and their neighbors and others and understand the value of living in a society that is cohesive.
Briar - 32:52: What would you say about the UAE society? Obviously we're living here. There's a lot of talk about artificial intelligence around the world. There's of a lot of hype. Is this hype justified? What's your thoughts about being here in the uae?
Dr. Selina - 33:09: So first of all, we have a system of frameworks and initiatives in the UAE that is kind of like the container of eventually helping people to be future ready. Whether it is the Centennial Plan, which is fundamentally about a future ready government, a future ready education system, a diversified economy and a cohesive society. These four pillars are the future of the nation. Then we have of course, the national strategy for AI, for entrepreneurship, the plan for happiness and well being. So all of this, it maps out the direction and the avenue on which we as citizens and residents exist and how we map out our own future readiness. Now let's look at the hype because businesses and educational institutions are all struggling to understand what is it really that AI can do for me.
Dr. Selina - 34:10: So out of all this hype, AI, first of all is a cost for a business, for a school, for a university is a cost. So I need to do the homework to understand, given the Business I have today and my ambition for the next 50 years, not three years, not five years, 50 years, or even longer. What is it that technology today and possibly technology in the future can do to help me do? Three things, fundamentally. Become more productive, become more precise, and be able to offer more personalization, whether it is in the products and services I offer, or in how I treat my workforce or how I learn. So at the moment, we are living in a space and in a stage where this homework is happening. It is happening at education level, it is happening at business level.
Dr. Selina - 35:07: But nobody has figured everything out. Therefore, the government and the public sector in the UAE is very present and is very vocal because they know that help can come from the public sector into the private sector. But companies and organizations need to understand that AI adoption is a journey. It's not a project, it's not a task. And in that journey there is a lot of experimentation. We try things out. If they work. If they don't work, we move on and we leave them. So I think UAE wise, we are better off than most countries in the world because this experimentation is part of the DNA of the nation and because of the sort of public policy we have around us.
Dr. Selina - 35:56: But we still suffer from, you know, we read social media, we listen to social media, we view social media, and we have to develop the capacity to cut through the chase and really understand which information is valuable and valid as opposed to hot air. And this capacity is also part of the skill set.
Briar: 36:18 - Yeah. Do you think that it's realistic that the UAE will become market leaders in artificial intelligence by 2031?
Dr. Selina - 36:27: My answer would be, why not? I use the same answer that our leaders have. Why not? Why not? Is it the same size of the UAE that makes people think that we can't? Is it the location, the geographic location in the world? Why can't the UAE become the leader by 2030 or 2031, given the investment, the ambition, the relentless focus on execution, the zero corruption policy and approach, why not? All the cards on the table speak of the UAE becoming the leader. And by the way, it is also top ambition at country level to be the number one in future readiness.
Briar - 37:14: It's amazing, really, isn't it? It feels. I love living here. And, you know, certainly over the past three years especially, like, I really feel the energy, I feel the evolution. There was a time a little bit before COVID time where I started to feel, and I think it was because I'd lived in New York and London that I kind of felt like I was living in Sheffield, uk, Like, you know, once I'd kind of met everybody sort of thing, I was like, you know what, this has a real community feel here, which is nice, but when you're someone, I think, who always likes the feeling of evolution and novelty and things like this, it started to feel a little bit stifling. But then after the pandemic, I feel everything just changed. It was almost like the UAE was on the global stage.
Briar - 38:00: There was a lot more movement. It felt like when it came to technology and innovation and there's a lot more people coming here now as well. So it. It really does almost feel like we're in the epicenter of the world now. To a certain extent. It feels like we're in New York, a London, but hey, we're Dubai and that's pretty cool.
Dr. Selina - 38:20: Absolutely, absolutely. And I completely agree with you. You know, there is a vibe. After Covid, so many countries were left figuring out, what am I going to do next? And many are still figuring out. We turned the page very quickly. We had the shortest lockdown. We had an economy, a society that proved to be resilient. We had a government that protected us. We never lost the place in the world. But we learned from COVID We learned that we need to be. Be autonomous and independent in certain things. Health care, you know, I might buy the suits from Milan, but I need medicines made here for the next pandemic. So, you know, certain. And this is pragmatism. It's pragmatism and a relentless effort and focus on protecting the people and protecting society.
Briar - 39:15: And you spoke a little bit about hype before and how that within itself is a skill set. How do we differentiate between what's real, what's hype? Obviously, there's so much hype when it comes to artificial intelligence. Will it achieve consciousness? Will we achieve AGI by 2030? You know, will we achieve the singularity? Like is these things just around the corner? Some experiments. Experts are saying that it is. What is hype? Where are we sort of at when it comes to artificial intelligence?
Dr. Selina - 39:52: So the hype for me starts with this idea that AI particularly will take over the world and the human race and we will be all done and dusted by then. No, I don't believe that. Because let's remember who is behind the creation of technological solutions. It is the human race and it has to remain the human race. Very, very important. So we know for sure that our life will be changing and is already changing dramatically. And therefore the way we produce goods and services, the Way we operate as businesses and as countries. But what will really shift with AI is the fact that not that jobs will come and will go, of course technology will create new jobs. It started with the Industrial Revolution. We had similar patterns.
Dr. Selina - 40:46: But we will be and we need to remain in control of the journey of AI. This is very important. And it isn't just about jobs that are created and jobs that are replaced. It is also very much about those of us who learn to work with AI, will replace those who don't. It's very simple in words, very difficult to make it happen. So those of us who learn to live with AI in a world of work where humans and machines coexist, co inhabit, create value together, will replace the people, the human beings who don't learn or don't want to learn. There is Alvin Toffler, a scientist from the 1970s in the United States. He wrote the Third Wave, the Big Shock, et cetera, is considered one of the fathers of future readiness.
Dr. Selina - 41:46: At the time he said the illiterates of the 21st century will not be people who cannot write or read. It will be people who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn.
Briar - 42:03: Interesting.
Dr. Selina - 42:05: Now let's take the learn, unlearn and relearn this idea that the life of a human is I'm born, I am educated, I go through my career, and I retire. These are the stages. That idea is being completely disrupted. But how many people in the world still live with that idea? Most of us. Most of us because it has been with us for 3,000 years or 2,000 years. But the 100 year life and the longevity that we can aspire to with science, with a bit of destiny and life choices will actually allow us to live in loops where learning, working, living, learning are part of day to day. In every stage, I am in a loop. So education will not be the front end of our life and retirement will not be the back end of it.
Dr. Selina - 43:00: We will learn to work differently as we go through these stages. And most importantly, Briar age will no longer equal stage. When I say I'm 57, people ask me, when are you retiring? And I said, ain't a retirement in my book. There will be a different way of working. As long as I am healthy, I will reinvent myself a few times.
Briar - 43:26: Exactly.
Dr. Selina - 43:29: And this is very important because it's part of what AI will allow us to do. Technology maps out these stages and these loops, but it is still something that for many people is a very scary thing, especially if they don't have a background in technology or an interest in tech. They see this revolution and they feel paralyzed. They don't know where to start, they don't know what will happen to them and they don't think they can transition. They can reinvent themselves because most people never do. And therefore, the mission and the purpose of the Institute for Future Readiness is to help them doing this by working with organizations, working with schools, universities and governments to start this journey, because nobody has figured it out. We are all trying to find the way forward.
Briar - 44:24: I loved what you said earlier on as well about, you know, that mindset, that adaptability, that being flexible, you know, that kind of excitement. And again, I think it really comes back to knowing oneself, what you were saying earlier, once you know yourself, you can, yeah, adapt yourself. You can evolve, you can revolutionize yourself, so to speak. I, I think of my own career and the journey that it's taken me on, from a waitress to real estate to recruitment, to running a PR agency. So wonderful, you know, that's part of life, it's exciting, it's a journey.
Dr. Selina - 45:04: And therefore, and therefore also we need as parents to instill this gift of experimentation of where you come from is not defining where you go. I mean, it definitely didn't for me, thank goodness. Otherwise I don't know where I would be at the.
Briar - 45:21: Probably still be back there, probably and.
Dr. Selina - 45:24: Live in a very unhappy, an unhealthy life. And also we need employers who appreciate and understand this. You know, making a mistake in the UAE is not something that tarnishes you for life. Back in the days in the Italy I was raised in, up until 18 before I left, making a mistake, you make it once, you are tarnished for life. To this day, I have friends who are entrepreneurs and when the first venture doesn't work, nobody will fund them for any other venture because the mentality is still, you know, you had one chance, you missed it, that's it for you. And therefore, there are things that need to shift at family level, at community level, at educational level, at country level, at business level.
Dr. Selina - 46:1: And, you know, I am making sure for what I can and what is in my control that I help people figure it out. This future of work, which by the way, let's talk about for a moment about this future of work, because it isn't a science, number one, it's a bit of a black box. It's a moving target. And it is, at the end of the day, the human perspective, the perspective of some people on how work and life is changing because of the technological revolution. We are living. But it is a perspective that means I can, number one, drive it. I can create the future I want and the place in the future that I want. This is what the UAE does. This is what people who have embraced the journey of future readiness do.
Dr. Selina - 47:00: As opposed to what I also did when I was much younger, sitting there looking at this and saying, how will I actually be able to make money and make a living and be happy and be fulfilled in that future? That I don't understand very well anyway. And people around me don't understand either because all of this is energy that creates frustration. And we need to mobilize human, human, you know, humanity and human capital to help map out the future we want as opposed to this scary future of work that nobody really understands. A future where job descriptions will not exist, role descriptions will not exist. We are all problem solvers, we are all there to solve problems at the end of the day. And we need not only skill, talent, we also need flexibility in using talent.
Dr. Selina - 47:54: Because if I'm skilled and I know myself and I've got all this, you know, plus plus next to my name, wonderful. But then if the structures around me don't allow me to make, move vertically and laterally in a business and just because I entered my career as an example in quality management. Quality management will be for life. No, actually not. Because the foundational skills are those that make me transferable.
Briar - 48:23: Yes, yes. And I think children very much see that these days, don't they? The fact that you can evolve, have many different careers, for goodness sake. We've got the President of the US who has been in reality tv, he's been a businessman, he's now a bloomin, you know, President of the US like, you know, if anyone's going to show us that, that can be done, it's him, I guess. And so we do live in this, this era of evolution. And I sometimes something that I'm thinking about when it comes to the Future is perhaps 10 billion humanoid robots living, working amongst us and we're all connected to AI on a person level, but then also connected to the robots as well. So we create this hive mind of organic and artificial intelligence.
Briar - 49:16: And that's something that I'm both really excited about and also quite fearful about as well. What kind of thoughts do you have about how the future might look? Because everyone thinks of the future differently, right?
Dr. Selina - 49:33: Well, first of all, I hope that the future will have a healthy planet to live on to begin with because we all know we need to be more productive. Why we need to be, to do more with less raw materials, less resources. So that's the equation of productivity. That, that's why AI is very important, because it will help me to be more productive. So I need a planet, otherwise there is no human race. Second of all, before we go into the world of work, I need communities and societies that are cohesive, where people can live in hope for the future, can trust their leaders, can contribute solutions, and regardless of nationalities, of faith, of personal choices. And the UAE is a great example of this.
Dr. Selina - 50:26: How this society holds together, it's not just by chance, it's by design and by the efforts of all of us choosing it as our home. And then absolutely, Brian, the future will be among us. There will be human enhanced beings that will help us achieve more, live better, be healthier, get to know ourselves better, taking care of our mental health. All of this is possible with robotics, with this intersection of humans. But we have to be able to embrace it instead of being scared. This is why the playfulness is important. It will not work for everyone. Of course not, but this is the future of machines and humans is eventually what will happen. We know that. Therefore, better start in preparing ourselves for that. And we will have longevity beyond health and wellness.
Dr. Selina - 51:35: I'm talking longevity of mind, longevity of human capacity to contribute, value to society, longevity in terms of retaining certain features of our youth, whether they are a good skin or a good way of thinking, but into, you know, stages of life where we are, you know, 90, 100, 110, as opposed to, you know, when I talk about this in our programs, people tell me, how am I going to finance a 100 year life? And I said, because we will be working longer.
Dr. Selina - 52:14: It's not just about the pension scheme or retirement or all of this, not at all. But if that work kills me, if that work, I can't stand it. I cannot Even think of 12 months, let alone 50 years more. Right? That's why the, the focus on well, well being and mental health and feeling fulfilled is so important. Because if we don't have that, it will, you know, we are mapping out a life where people will be unhappy and then we see what unhappiness creates when mental health kicks in as an illness.
Briar - 52:49: You know how some people talk about how in the future you either hear that really utopian description, so AI is going to take all of our jobs, but it's going to be amazing because none of us have to Work and everything will be free and we'll just, I don't know, spend our days doing whatever the hell we want. And then of course you hear the complete opposite side of the coin which is, oh my God, AI is going to take over all of our jobs. What are we going to do? We won't be able to work. But it's like, you know, it's scary. And then there's talks about like the, the universal payment scheme as well. So everyone will get paid a certain amount of pocket money in replacement for not being able to work.
Briar - 53:33: And it's, it's interesting because when you talk about this whole like retiring thing, like do you see either of these being an option?
Dr. Selina - 53:46: I think we will end up somehow in, in between, in a space in between. You know, I don't have the crystal ball and maybe I will not be around to see whether my predictions will be, will come to fruition. But looking at where we are today, of course humanity will have a place in the future. Of course there will be human life. Of course it will be enhanced by technology. I mean look, what can we learn from history? Look at the industrial revolution, what happened? Lots of people got access to education and to jobs. But also lots of people became super rich and screwed the ones that didn't become super rich. So this, you know, capitalism comes from that. And we know this system will not hold for the future. There's too much need for equality, I mean equality of opportunities.
Dr. Selina - 54:40: There's too much care by Gen Z and by people who have become somehow more mature over time that what we can, you know, the value we can create as businesses and as government needs to serve society. Of course a business needs to make money. Absolutely. This was by the way also the subject of my doctoral thesis by the how you make money, how you create value has become very important. So I think we're going to end up in a space in between. I think that we will live a life that is much more personalized. Everything around us, from transportation to healthcare to entertainment will be very much tailored to the individual as opposed to a group of people. And of course we will have breakthroughs in healthcare that will allow us to be healthier and to live longer and to be happier. I want to hope all simply mental health so that we take care of this crisis that we have. The way we are governed will change. I mean think about in the uae, most of what we do is digital. I mean we still have a few paperwork around us, but it's a digital way of governing services to individuals. When we travel to other countries, there's very little that is digitized in this way. And therefore it's a good playground to see the uae, to see the life we will live. You know, we will have the flying taxis in a year or so. So, you know, stuff that a few years ago you would imagine or in a video or in a film will be reality.
Briar - 56:25: Exactly. It's all developing so quickly and the rate of change is just extravagant. When you're talking about personalized technology. It made me think of how when it comes to my shopping experience, I love the fact that right now, Instagram, Facebook, it knows my fashion sense. It is constantly feeding me ads of like the most beautiful, brightest sequency shoulder padded dresses. And I love it because I'm like, yes, yes, bye, bye. You know, maybe my bank balance doesn't like it, but you know, I love the fact that it's personalized. So every time, you know, I'm on these shopping apps, I'm always clicking that terms of business to say yes, deliver me ads, understand my preferences, send it across to me. Now I know a lot of people do not do this. They don't want their ads to know stuff about them.
Briar - 57:26: But to me I see that as being such a benefit. You spoke about how in the future we're going to continue to have this kind of personalized technology. So maybe I might have like a health chip in my hand. I wake up in the morning, it tells me like what kind of food that I need. Maybe it orders it from Uber eats automatically. It's bringing me all my nutrients. It's all super personalized. Like what other personalized health care as well? At the moment we go to the doctors, it's very much a one size sort of fits all, we'll have our bloods tested sort of thing. I think it's a very exciting time that we're going into where we can really use technology to our advantage.
Briar - 58:06: Whereas yeah, up until this point, I guess it's like, yeah, we've got tech, but it's kind of like not really working for us so much.
Dr. Selina - 58:14: And also, let's think. Absolutely. And also let's think about the way we learn. We'll change. Change. Personalized education and learning. In a classroom today, a group of people go through an experience that is pretty much designed between the faculty or the teacher and the school system. But in the future. So first of all, that has created lots of problems because some children or some adults learn differently, need different things for the same sort of output, which is I am creating a new skill set or learning a new behavior. And that to me is not only liberating but is enhancing the value of humanity. Because I am finally, I will be finally able to tailor learning to the preferences of a person, to the physical or mental limitations someone might unfortunately experience. I mean, I was born for.
Dr. Selina - 59:11: For instance, my right eye couldn't see anything. The first 15 years of my life, of my learning, was with one eye only while this eye was being treated back in the days. In the future this might have been, I mean probably is a day gig with a surgeon, whether a real surgeon or a robotic surgeon, to fix something that costed me 15 years of hardship in terms of learning and all the behavior of the kids around me. We know kids are not very supportive of this type of situations. So it can, real technology will help us to live better and live a longer life because it will free up a lot of time. And what do we do with this time, this extra time?
Dr. Selina - 59:58: We need to use it to recreate ourselves, meaning to transition, to experiment, to try out new things, to build new skills, to understand the new industries that will emerge so that we remain relevant and we have fun along the way. Very important because we know research is very clear. Learning happens when we have fun with it. And not just formal learning on the job. Also, if I don't have fun, some level of fun, I will learn and forget very quickly.
Briar - 01:00:37: This reminds me of when I had a real life fashion label. So I used to design luxury suits. They were power suits. They were amazing. Like I love fashion, but when it came to the actual fashion being my career, running the business, I hated it. I hated the production, I hated the manufacturing. I was like, how can one be so passionate and find something so fun? And then when it comes to working in it, like completely hate everything about it and. But that's how I managed to get into digital fashion as well. Because I started doing digital fashion for avatars. I liked it. It still had the creativity. I didn't have to stick with the rules of the physics when it came to the actual physical garment.
Briar - 01:01:24: And it had that element of creativity, media and technology, which is really, I think, my kind of intersection and where I thrive in. So, you know, further to your point and something that I've really taken home from this conversation is it's, it's a personal evolution. You know, the skills that we learn one job, you know, will take us to the next job. And as Long as we're curious and we're continuing to explore this, then who knows where the future will take us? Really, it's exciting.
Dr. Selina - 01:01:53: Very, very exciting. And again, it really can create happy and fulfilled lives. Experimenting, you know, myself, when I experiment, do I actually have a full picture of what I'm doing? Not really. It's part of experimenting that you don't know what next will happen, but you're willing to take a risk or to take a chance. And I had to learn the hard way not to beat myself up if things didn't work out because I was very tough on myself. And I learned to be more gentle and kind to myself. And when things don't work out, well, it's part of this experimentation. I need to walk my talk right. And also, I think it's also part of my upbringing. It was very traditional and you know, you make a mistake, it's a problem for life. Today is different. Today is very different.
Dr. Selina - 01:02:45: I mean, look at me. When I was 49, I went back into formal education to do my doctorate. 49. In my group I had all Gen Zs, people who are younger, you know, mentally supposed to be more agile just because they've been around the less years. And in reality, I finished in three years, my doctorate.
Briar - 01:03:10: What was your doctorate in?
Dr. Selina - 01:03:12: In business. And my research area is corporate governance, which is the other side of me. I said, I'm a woman of many lives. Corporate governance is one of my expertises. And I didn't finish a doctorate in three years because I'm super intelligent, I don't think. So I finished because I had relentless focus on what I was doing. And I knew that I had to sacrifice everything, including weekends, family life, holidays to make this happen because it was my transition into education. So I understood where. What are my competence now, competencies now? Well, I need research capabilities. I need to be able to do research, which by the way, has taught me a little bit about cutting through the chase of the hype of news and data and understanding what I can trust and what I cannot trust.
Dr. Selina - 01:04:02: And if I can trust, how can I verify? Which is an important skill that we don't teach unless you do a doctorate. Why should that skill be only for people who choose a doctorate, which is a very special choice in someone's life, should be available to everyone to help us navigate the news of every day. The type of feeds in, you know, from fashion channels or anything.
Briar - 01:04:28: Yeah, like the algorithms these days, like, whoa, that's a whole. Gosh, when you're thinking about you know, perspectives and the future. Like an artificial intelligence. I don't think people even think about how much of AI already exists in their daily lives. And we literally have algorithms that are rewriting our brains or influencing our thoughts or making us feel that, oh, this thought that I have about a particular topic is reinforced because I'm being fed more content. Like I just think of those people that thought that the earth was flat. And it was because when they were interviewed they were like, well, I was just seeing so much content. That just reinforced my belief that the earth was flat. It was all that I saw.
Briar - 01:05:13: So, you know, when we're thinking about the future as well, I think it's, you've got to actively go out there and seek new sources of information. And because the media like what you say, it's just very fear driven. So if you can stay in that bubble, you can think that the world is just a very nasty, negative place, that nothing is good. But actually if you look back in society to like the 1800s, like our existence was super harsh short, one in four babies died. Like dying of a tooth cavity was very common. And you know, yes, there are a lot of problems in today's society, but when we think about it from that kind of broader perspective, it's way more good stuff than what used to happen back then.
Dr. Selina - 01:05:53: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think also we need to, as humans, we need to do a better job at learning from the past. Because if we do a better job at learning from the past, we are not going to repeat certain mistakes, repeat, for instance, certain policy choices, regulation that was.
Briar - 01:06:14: What kind of mistakes do you think we made in the past and what do you think we could learn from them?
Dr. Selina - 01:06:19: Well, for instance, mistakes of number one, not knowing human history, not knowing where we come from as humans, as countries, as political systems. So that is a big one in terms of technology itself. Understanding, for instance, now that technology has to be inclusive. Back in the Industrial revolution or the 1990s Internet inclusivity of technology was not very important. It actually created a different class system. People were left behind and all kinds of problems stem from that. But the fact that technology needs to be inclusive and what does it mean to be inclusive?
Dr. Selina - 01:06:58: Not only accessible, but understood and embraced by all kinds of people of all kinds of walks of lives and earning power, because this is the only way that we will lift society as opposed to create a bubble for some groups of people when others are left behind, because that will then create other types of troubles. For instance, also if you look at the 1990s with the Internet all got very excited, then everybody got very scared. I mean, I remember working in hospitality in the 2015, 2016 and an industry was still questioning how Internet would change the way we travel. They were questioning it. They were not trying to understand, they were questioning it. Meaning will it change the way we travel and we, you know, we experience the world, of course we will.
Dr. Selina - 01:07:56: So it was a very, there was a delay in this understanding. We can't have delays in the pace of change. With today's AI and technology, we need to really all hands on deck to understand what these solutions, how they will change the way we live and work. We can't wait 15 years at the time it happened and then we need to remain vigilant, of course, and ensure we are in the driver's seat and we remain in the driver's seat, therefore creating generations of people who are at ease with technology. Because some will behind the big discoveries, some will be adopting them, others will be at the intersection of both. But there are mistakes that we have made that we need to not to make again. And it starts by learning what happened before us.
Briar - 01:08:51: So someone who's listening to this podcast and they're keen to become a little bit more future ready. What would be your easy way for them to wake up tomorrow morning and just start?
Dr. Selina - 01:09:06: First of all, where I come from doesn't define where I go very important. Where I am today doesn't define where I will go. Second, let's take a long look in the mirror alone or with the help of others and understand what I am good at today. What is it that I really feel super passionate about? What is it that I would like to entertain as an idea or look into something as experimentation and then let's learn the world around us because the future of work and jobs, opportunities, all of this is happening around us. So I need to dedicate every day a little bit of time to watch or listen to a podcast, read the news, cut through the chase and the hype of what is really important.
Dr. Selina - 01:09:55: I need to remain an active citizen of the world, even if today I'm living in a village or, you know, in a small place on earth. But I have the ambition and the interest to go beyond. It starts with that and then let's remain, let's continue to have an experimentation attitude to life and let's not look at life as a straight line from 0 to 100 because it isn't. And let's break this pattern of education, career and retirement. So it's very liberating to look at the world in this way. And by the way, this work of looking at myself inside of me, mapping out what is the future, what type of jobs are available, etc. Is daily work like we go to the gym or we go and get our hair done. Same thing. It has to become part of normal routine.
Dr. Selina - 01:10:52: And that's the only way where we pick up a habit, we make it a habit.
Briar - 01:10:57: Well, it's been so great to have you on the show. It's been amazing and learned so much. And yeah. Thank you for sharing all your thoughts and perspectives with us today.
Dr. Selina - 01:11:06: My pleasure. My pleasure. I was delighted to be here with you. And I have learned so much, too.
Briar - 01:11:12: Thank you.
About Dr. Selina Neri
Dr. Selina is a multidisciplinary, forward-thinking, global corporate-academic with over 30 years of diverse, C-level and Board experience in Fortune 500, Global 500 and startups in different industries in the US, Europe and Asia. Recognized for being an inspirational, authentic and well-respected global leader. Included in the prestigious Thinkers50 Radar 2025 list of the world’s most influential management thinkers, for her “important contribution to leadership development and making generations future-ready”.
CEO, Dean & Co-Founder of the Institute for Future Readiness (UAE), a leading institution in future readiness dedicated to making generations future-ready through programs, research and advisory work. Senior Fellow of the Center for Governance, Public Investment Fund (Saudi Arabia), driving thought leadership and education in corporate governance. Professor of Leadership and Corporate Governance at Hult Ashridge Executive Education (UK). Visiting Professor at SKOLKOVO (Moscow School of Management).
Dr. Selina is a leading voice in Future Readiness, the Future of Work, Human Capital Development and Corporate Governance. Featured in Emirates News (Dubai One TV), Gulf News, Arabian Business, Khaleej Times, The Agenda Podcast Dubai Eye (timestamp 11:00 – 21:30), Khaleej Times (Print), Zawya, Zawya (Arabic), 25H App.
Featured in The Female FTSE Board Report 2016: 100 Women to Watch, published by Financial Times in recognition for services to corporate governance. Winner of the 2019, 2020 and 2021 Professor of the Year award (London and Dubai campuses) and the 2020 Global Faculty of the Year award at Hult International Business School.
Featured in Higher Education Digest 2023 for her contribution to leadership impact and development. Most recent publications include New Horizons (2024) (Skolkovo); International Environments and Practices of Higher Education (2022) (Emerald), Global Challenges to CSR and Sustainable Development (2021) (Springer), the Academy of Management Proceedings (2020), the European Academy of Management Proceedings (2020), the Encyclopedia of Sustainable Management (2020) (Springer), Business Ethics: A European Review (2019), The International Journal of Management Education (2019). Education: PhD in Business Management, The British University in Dubai (UAE); MBA, University of Clemson (SC, USA); BA in Economics, University of Parma (Italy). Dr. Selina is a resident of her beloved UAE.
